INTERVIEW IN GRANVILLE

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GW：First of all, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to do this interview with us for our design project. I would like to assure you that all the information provided by you will be kept strictly confidential and will be used only for our academic research purpose.

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JH：You’re welcome. Glad that I could be of help.

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GW: So, I want to start off by asking, what kind of children’s activities/events do you provide here? Specifically for which ages?

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JH：Our main groups that we cater to are women, young people, families and older groups. The distinction between young people and families, is for families we’re looking at children from the ages of 0-11/12 and their parents, whereas when we’re looking at young people, we would be looking at ages 12+, and that can really come up to age 25/26, so young adults as well.

The services that we provide at the moment, arts has been really important in connecting with the community, following COVID. We hadn’t had much contact with members of the community, we didn’t have people coming out other than using this building for a vaccination centre. So, we really wanted to connect in a more fun way with the people that live in the area, specifically families, which is a very good way to do that. Because there are so many people with children in the area. We started the arts and crafts programme which initially was suppose to be a pilot scheme for maybe a few months but it was really well received, and people enjoyed coming, so we’ve just made it a permanent thing. So, every Tuesday, between 2-5PM we do arts and crafts drop-in sessions, also over the holidays we’ll do a more kind of fixed programme, where we might have facilitators at the centre for a week to deliver different art skills. For example, in half term, we have 3 days of arts. So that’s the family side of things. We are also now starting to develop and music programme. We have 2 music studios in the building, and we’re working with an organisation called YES limited to deliver a music programme, which should last up to 2 years for young people in the area. That would be looking at training young people weekly on any skills they want to develop within music, including thinking of a career in music, so it’s not simply just the skills, it’s more kind of thinking about how to develop themselves looking at the future. We will also be doing that in partnership with other organisations in the area. We also have weekly on a Tuesday, Box Up Crime, which is an organisation that operates all over London to deliver boxing sessions to children, but it also looks at mentoring, and they started here in January 2023, which was actually funded by Countryside who are doing the development over there (Peel Place). So, we’ve got some sport, we’ve got art but we are also looking for new things and getting people, particularly young people and families in the doors, which is really important.

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GW：How would you design a day’s schedule? Would you start off the day with say older people, in the afternoon more activities for children, such as after-school activities, then in the evening maybe activities for adults, as they would come after work or after school?

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JH：Well actually again, because of COVID, it was really starting from scratch when we started delivering events again. It was very much trial and error and going through a period of understanding what it was that people wanted. Even the arts and crafts for the kids, I started off doing it from thinking it was like 12-5PM and left it open to understand how many people, such as will it be mothers with young children or will it just be school kids after-school that would come. And that was a very interesting way to understand. And then I changed it now from 2-5PM. And in that 2-3PM period, we still actually do get some families who home-school their children, for example. So, for me, for that as an example I didn’t really want to assume which times fit people best. It was more kind of let’s see how it will go and adapt as we go along. Alternatively, in terms of planning and timing, we look at other things that are going on. So, if obviously we are running anything else, we will try to make it make sense for our programme, but we also look at if there are anything else going in the local organisations that might clash. For adults, we do have activities in the afternoon and also after work time. For kids and families, in the holidays/weekends, activities would be held in the early afternoon, but in the weekdays, it would often be after-school time, which has been really well received as people like to have something to do after-school.

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GW：You’ve talked about how the weekdays would look like in detail, but what about the weekends?

 

JH：For the weekends, we don’t actually have regular community events. So, this reception space does do private hire, so that often is taken up with some private hire. But historically I have done some bigger events on weekends like we have women’s well-being days and we invite people in and also with their families to come in and use the space and host activities that’s related to women’s well-being. We do get people who like to come in on weekends, but you don’t always know who’s going to make it and when, because most people like to have plans on the weekends, and you’re not guaranteed to get the regular income of people on the weekends as you are on the weekdays from my observation.

 

GW：When organising these activities/events for children, what sort of categories would you mostly be thinking about, such as the educational, physical and mental development aspect, or is it the more social and communal aspect?

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JH：One of our main points is that we develop activities due to the space that we have. We looked at the space that we have and we thought what can we do with this space basically, but we also had to keep in mind of the coming new space from the regeneration scheme, and what it’s going to look like in the future. So, we are trying to create some alignment between what we do now and we are going to continue to do into the future. So, the main things we look at is business, food, making, music and movement. So, that is largely or entirely based on the space that we have. For business, we have an enterprise hub here, and we are planning to have workspace in the new building, which is quite a big focus for us. Food is due to food being really large in the community and it’s the sense that we have The Granville community kitchen which operates downstairs which has always had a great uptake. They do a good food box, they have a kitchen where they feed migrants every Wednesday and Friday, so that’s effectively considered. Makers, just in terms of creativity, some people that do attend our enterprise hubs are creatives, so kind of wanted to encourage that and keep it going within the community. Music, as I said before, we’ve got a music studio downstairs, and movement we actually have a mirror dance space downstairs, and again we wanted to continue that moving forward. We just really wanted to kind of harness the existing things that people enjoyed doing and try to keep that going within the community.

 

GW：Out of these activities that you just mentioned, how do they actually benefit a child’s development do you think? In what way?

 

JH：I guess this would largely be from my personal opinion, as we haven’t done any reporting or research into whether or not this is true.

But I would say with the arts and crafts, it’s been really nice to first of all create a regular space that children can come into and feel at home and comfortable. It’s not a school setting, and they’re with their parents, and a lot of the times the parents do get involved, which creates that opportunity which you may not always get when you’re at home to bond with your parents in making stuff and have the resources as well, as we provide all of the stuff for free. The sessions aren’t structured in the sense that, sometimes I’ll have things prepared as an example and people will follow that example, but it’s very much free flow, it’s really nice to allow that creative flow to happened. And again, making a mess, which a lot of parents don’t like especially at home. We did a slime workshop at half-term, and the parents were like I wanted to bring them here so that they could do it here and not in my house. You know stuff like that is really nice to create. Another thing I would say is again just kind of diverging a little bit from the school setting, and letting kids know that they can come and have fun, and maybe even meet other children outside of school, which has been really nice. Now that’s on the creative side. I know that the Box Up Crime, they really like to create a sense of community amongst kids. So, after every session, the kids will sit down and have a circle time and address any issues that they might have, and that’s without their parents, which is also really good for the young people to make connections beyond their home and beyond their school as well. Music hasn’t started yet, so I can’t tell you how that benefits, but I’m hoping it will bring some great skills and, you know confidence to the young people in the area.

GW：What is the current attendance rate to these activities?

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JH： It really does vary. For the smaller workshops, we always aim for around 15-20 people. I think weekly on the arts and crafts, we probably have on average 10. It really fluctuates depending on if there is anything else going on, or you know if it’s raining. Again, our reporting is that we are starting to get a bit more now, but we haven’t got much detail about that now. Other things, if we do a bigger event, we might have around 50 people coming. As for the Box Up Crime, they have had around 40 signups.

There are also many other things that happen outside of what we do, at least organisationally.

 

GW：Indeed, we were talking to some parents the other day, and they were saying the church down the road, Carlton Vale, OK Club.

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JH：You’ve just reminded me that one of our staff is part of the enterprise hub, but he also does tutoring twice a week in this room, and it’s usually filled up kids that come after-school to do their homework, which is really good as well.

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GW：Someone also mentioned the Salvation Army, and the Padding Recreation Grounds, where most of the boys go there for football and boxing classes after-school.

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JH：The Kilburn libraries, Queens Park, they do things for families.

We actually have the Family Well-Being centre next door, which is run by a separate organisation, so I would also be worth talking to them, as they do again things for families with kids from ages 0-18 as well.

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GW：Why do children enjoy their time here? Is it because they are learning or doing something that isn’t taught at school?

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JH：I answered it quite a bit in the last question, but I do think that it’s because it’s an outside of school feeling you know. It’s something to do after-school instead of going home, but I also think it’s the opportunity to meet other kids, to have fun and to not really have many limitations on their creativity and what they do. They can take home what they make, there aren’t many rules, so it’s definitely quite nice to just have that feeling. For the parents, I guess it’s an alternative to just watching TV after-school, as they’ll still be learning and doing something.

GW：As you mentioned you’re planning to do music programmes in the future, but what else would you be looking at organising in the near future, specifically for children?

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JH：The creativity is big, I would really like to look into more about movement, you know maybe if there’s some dance programmes for kids and young people. We are looking at sustainability, but that’s really catering for older groups rather than kids. We would really want to partner with organisations that surround us, and anything that kind of comes up, we try and make it work so there maybe opportunities coming up for kids and young people that fit in with what we also want to do.

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GW：Are there any other problems that you or The Granville are currently facing?

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JH：Obviously, the redevelopment is a very big thing, and that is something that I’m often mindful of, because of the residents. I know that it’s been a long time living in space that’s being redeveloped, and they’re being consulted quite a lot about different things, like what would you like to see and also consulted on things that are not going to necessarily happen for another 5,10-20 years, when some residents might not even be here to see these changes. So, I have always been mindful that there have been people coming in to ask just what’s going on and we don’t always know what’s going on and that can be somewhat an issue. But it’s just kind of something that I’m concerned and mindful of, is just that this is a space that people can feel that they have somewhere to go to, regardless of what is going on and that’s the main thing for me as a community development officer.

The Granville as a whole, we’re always kind of thinking about funding and keeping our projects going. For example, some of our projects that we have delivered have been supposed to be on pilot scheme using funding that we’ve had, but as I’ve said with the arts and crafts because it’s popular, we have kept it going, so kind of making the projects be sustainable, so that we don’t just kind of deliver something and then just walk away or put a halt to it, which may cause a bit of an issue.

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GW：Is there a limitation of space/facilities/equipment, making it difficult to organise activities/events that you would like to have?

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JH：Space wise, yes. Something that we have had was because we offer venue hire, as well as community events and we have an enterprise hub, there is sometimes a bit of concern in terms of if there is something going on here, people using the enterprise hub have to walk through this room for example which can be an issue in terms of safe guarding. The activities that we do with kids, we mostly have their parents there, and that kind of takes that safety responsibility away from us, but you know sometime people have young small kids, and one may run one way and the other runs another way, there’s a door there and there’s a door the other end of the corridor, so you know it can be a bit difficult sometimes. It we had a more contained space it might make it a bit easier to management.

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GW：So more accessible space.

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JH：Yes. Accessibility wise, we’ve got the lift which is really good. So, people have been able to come whether or not we have activities upstairs or downstairs, regardless of their ability, which has been really nice to be able to offer that. But yes, this space is very much multi-purpose, which can be a bit of an issue. Being multi-purpose is good in many ways, but it can also be very difficult, it’s demanding. If people want to do private hire, they might not want to have the noticeboard with flyers on it, but that’s something we have for the community, and vice-versa. So that could be a problem at least space wise. In terms of physical space, I think we’ve got quite good, like ample space, there is a lot we can do which is good.

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GW：Would it also be the lack of facilities or equipment do you think?

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JH：I mean sometimes we speak about that it would be good to have some screens to just define the space. For example, you come in and want to use the café, this area would act as a welcome café sort of space and the area back here would be for other purposes like afternoon tutoring etc., as it has been quite hard to get a balance within these large spaces.

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GW：So would that be a kind of funding issue then?

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JH：Yes, can be a funding issue.

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GW：What kind of improvements would you be looking to do in the future?

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JH：I guess organisationally again, we would be looking at making the activities more streamlined in the sense of if we do have community events, people can come and access that event and it doesn’t disrupt the people in the enterprise hub, it doesn’t disrupt the people potentially private hiring.

In terms of service, I think improvements I’d like to make is to make the activities bigger and better and to do more for the community. I hope to be able to reach more people and really provide good quality services and community events that is accessible and open to all.

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GW：As you said earlier, the redevelopment scheme has been quite concerning. Do you think that this scheme it will be bringing a positive or a negative impact to The Granville but also to children? Or maybe a neutral impact or a bit of both?

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JH：Well, I mean again I can only really speak from the experiences that I’ve had with community members. I’ve heard that there’s some issue with uncertainty. So, families that don’t necessarily know when they’re being moved, where they’re being moved to and the timeframes. If you have kids and young children, and they are supposed to be going to school, do you put them in the school, do you wait then for them to be told to move then need to move another school, or would you rather move before anything happens so you know where you are going to be and when. I think that’s something that I’ve heard people kind of would sometimes rather have certainty as opposed to just having to wait around for an answer on their fate is going to be, that’s probably more from a parent’s concern than it is for kids.

I think for the children, I’m not sure if you’ve visited the schools that are across there.

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GW：We’ve talked to some of the children, but we haven’t specifically asked them about the regeneration scheme. First of all, within the Brent Council’s entire consultation process, because children are not considered as part of the group of people that they talk to, that’s why they wouldn’t know about it. And regeneration as a whole, it’s something that is really hard for children to understand.

JH：of course.

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GW：So, we approached them with another idea, asking them to imagine if they could create, make, build, learn or play with anything in the world, what would that be? Just playing with their imagination, and think through their eyes, rather than talking to them straight up about the regeneration scheme.

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JH：Yes, exactly.

I think I’d say another thing upon my observation, is that the schools, the Kilburn Park and the Carlton Vale, are going to be merged. They are currently right next to each other and they are going to be moved across the park and be merged into one. I think there’s definitely been a bit of a standstill there. I think they’re just kind of seem to be waiting a little in limbo for that to happen, which is quite a lot of time, but the council doesn’t seem to be doing updates to the schools because of that you know, which seems quite problematic.

 

GW：It's sort of that in-between time, between now and the future.

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JH：That’s it. You’re correct. It was kind of what you were saying, what could be put in place in that meanwhile, in that in-between time, and I think the in-between time is obviously the biggest and the longest time

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GW：And there’s always got to be delays.

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JH：Always delays, always something changing, always something going on. So, I think that the meanwhile is a really big thing and that’s kind of something that we are as an organisation, hoping to be kind of like a comfort. Although even this building is changing, we’re going to be here throughout the time. But yes, as we used to have some photos of the estates on the wall, I have had children talking to me about where they live, where they used to live, where their neighbours might have lived or used to live there and now, they’ve gone somewhere else far away. So, there is an awareness ofcourse of the changes, it’s just the terminology that they might not necessarily be familiar with.

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GW：From our interview with the parents at the park, we learned that only 20% of the new housing will be turned into council housing, and the remaining 80% will be private housing. However, throughout our research, we’ve never come across this statistic. It was only until the parents told us about it, then we realised about this. It definitely goes to show that the sense of uncertainty increases in terms of being put in a house or moving out of Kilburn even, which is quite concerning.

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JH：Wow, very interesting. It is very concerning.Another thing also would be overcrowding. People that are in overcrowded situations are waiting out until the new buildings are being built, so that that can be remedied as opposed to a solution now. I have had a couple people talking about that, where they are currently in that situation but they have been proposed something coming up eventually, but how longs that going to be. Eventually, eventually is a lot of what I hear.

There has not been much decisiveness in the sense that in 2 years on this date, I will be moving to my new property. It’s like I’ve been told that I can eventually have a nice house nearby, but when will that be. And it’s not a nice way to live, when you really don’t know your future, and when you’re not in control of your own living situation.

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GW：And are there any difficulties that you are facing because of this scheme?

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JH：We’ve had the hoarding over there for the building next door. There’s suppose to be a new community space being built, and work should’ve started in August 2022, but there has been delays as you do because of party wall agreements, so again basically if that’s not built in time and this gets demolished in the meantime, we will be losing out on community space for some period of time. For us, there have been conversations with the council, but it’s just whether or not that’s communicated to the community, which I don’t think has been regularly or clearly done.

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GW：Does the council come to The Granville to carry out their discussions, or is it through email, their website etc? What sort of method would that be done in?

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JH：Our staff Dale, is part of the South Kilburn Trust Fund, and is in charge of looking at the regeneration scheme. He meets very regularly with the Brent Council and is very much up-to-date with things and is informing the next upcoming plans with the Carlton building. If you need more information about that you can definitely speak to him about it. I know that Brent Council have had consultations here, mostly with the staff.

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GW：As you mentioned that The Granville will be expanded into a larger building, then have you got any temporary measures or plans to adapt to the regeneration scheme?

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JH：That’s what I’ve kind of been working on for the last couple of months, is developing a programme that would kind of ease into this changing of the space, which is kind of why we’ve looked into the key elements that consider both this building and the coming building. Anything that we do put in place should be able to transition into the new space as well. Meanwhile I don’t know what’s going to happen in-between, but basically the things I’ve been planning are in 6 months chunks, and then we will be able to adapt that depending you know whether its down-sizing or up-scaling. When things arise, the programmes will be able to be adapted, but should still be able to be operate. I didn’t want to kind of limit anything due to a space change, as it would be nice to keep doing activities at the same level, but I don’t know whether it would be possible or not. I had also enquired about getting some kids into decorate that hoarding out there as a project, some graffitiing. That space will still always be there for them, and if it doesn’t look like it is you know or feel like it is.

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GW：I’m sure you must’ve seen the final plans for the regeneration scheme?

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JH：I have. Yes

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GW：As you can see here, there will be new sports centres, the expansion to the community centre, the new nursey and primary school complex just to name a few. In addition to these facilities, what else could have been included within the regeneration scheme?

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JH：Completely from my own understanding, I think green spaces is a really big demand is what I hear people talking about all the time. Definitely outdoor and green space. And there has been a concern that we’re going to lose some of our green space. But obviously if there’s more across the road, and more behind us, then that wouldn’t necessarily be a problem, you know that we have access to. We actually did a kind of mapping event for women and young girls, back in September/October 2022, again discussing about the uses of public space and re-imagining, more looking into Kilburn High Road, but generally in Brent. Particularly, discussions about lighting were brought up. To access Kilburn Park station, when you exit this building or if you exit anything from this side, is very residential, it’s very quiet, you’ll be at least 5-7 minutes away before reaching a shop for example. Safety wise, it feels quite secluded, it is very dark, it’s like an alleyway that you have got to kind of walk down, through a locked-up children’s playground on both sides that no one accesses and some bushes, which feels very creepy, and people have been mindful of that and have been talking about that.

In terms of things as well, when we’re here, coming from the front of the building, as I’m sure you know again it’s a 7-10 minute walk before you get to anything in terms of a shop or café for example. Because of that you don’t get much footfall, you don’t get many people passing by to access the space or even know about it. So, if there will be more shops and businesses around this area, it will increase footfall and we might be able to get more people in our building to participate in our activities.

I think playground is also a really good one.

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GW：Some of the parents were saying that the playground in the park across the road, they have some gym equipment for adults.

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JH：But all the kids end up on it.

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GW：Exactly, and it’s very very dangerous. The kids play equipment is just simply too small for every kid from the schools to play on.

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JH：I think it’s always beneficial to have more play space, I don’t know why people don’t put more play space in, doesn’t make sense to me. This area, as I’m sure you know, have got so many schools. At Padding Rec, they have the big kids’ playground and the small kids’ playground, which accommodates to all ages.

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GW：One of the parents that we talked to said that the new playgrounds built are mainly for the residents that live in those blocks, so it’s not open to public. So, that limiting the space where the children can play.

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JH：Which is such a strange concept isn’t it.

 

GW：Things like this should be open to public and accessible to children.

JH：That’s it. It’s very difficult to explain to children why you can’t go into a certain place that looks fun you know. Really strange.

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GW：Here is the design that we had in mind. Before a building gets demolished, to after the demolition and during the construction of the new build, scaffolding is usually being put up.

JH：Do you know about Merle Court?

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GW：Yes

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JH：They have had the scaffolding up for ages and they still have people living in there I think, and have been for the past couple of years, because of the cladding, which is a very weird situation.

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GW：This is our intervention.

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JH：A train! Love that! Wow!

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GW：We were trying to be more imaginative with the things we design within the scaffolding.

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JH：So where would this be then?

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GW：This is our design framework on our chosen site, the Crone and Craik Court and Zangwill House, which is right round the corner. We know that the final move out/demolition notice has been issued to the residents in Crone and Craik Court by the Brent Council. Sooner or later the residents will move out and then scaffolding will come in, but in-between when they set up the scaffolding and when they demolish it, that could potentially be a period of time when maybe some sort of activities could be done with the scaffolding.

 

JH：Do you know how long the scaffolding will be up for?

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GW：We don’t know that yet, but obviously from the master-planning schedule by Brent Council, we know that it could start from 2023, though due to delays and as you can see right now, residents are still coming in and out of Crone and Craik Court, so that might not be the case. As Architects we should think of ways to re-define a scaffolding and now a scaffolding is just a scaffolding, maybe we could think about what it could be in the future, maybe it could be re-used for community events, activities for kids.

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JH：Like a little pop-space.

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GW：We were thinking about doing a little activity with the kids. We would provide them with a small scaffolding kit and we would then ask the kids to draw or write on cards or puzzles and put them onto the scaffolding and see what sort of programmes they come up with and how each space would come together or interact with one another. And probably ask the kids, what if this were to be placed in front of your house or around your house, what would you like that to be and how would that look like. Ask them to help us inform our research and our final design.

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JH：You could do that here if you wanted to.

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GW：Really? That would be great!

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JH：This is really cool. Nice! I love it! Love your plans.

So, is this design based on some of the feedback that you got from your research and interviews?

 

GW：Yes. Our design project is really researched based. That’s why it’s mainly informed by what we learned from the public, through the perspective of community centres, from the parents and the children and from Brent Council and looking into what they do. And as I said earlier, children are not included within this consultation process, that’s why it’s one of the reasons why we chose to focus our design project on children, and to see their thoughts on the future of South Kilburn.

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JH：That’s it! And they are exactly the future. Makes all of the sense. That’s really interesting.

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GW：Again, many thanks for doing this interview with us and we greatly appreciate all your help that you have given us.